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  1. View Post #51
    Iceland Inactive Northern Boy's Avatar
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    Re: The Establishment of the Ron?s Orgs

    so this will be how I picture the spin as going:


    Inelia and her 10th dimensional wisdom was the only one who was able to reach deep down inside Bill and bring him back to his sense`s. It wasn`t till then that Bill Ryan had realized what an utter assh ole he had become and because of the mind control games he was being put under by Charles and the 18 he can not be held responsible for his actions during this time frame. Then he will ask you all to forgive him rather then step forward and accept he is at fault here and that the scam being outlined will I`m sure include his name in its initial planning Stages. More to follow after a meeting with my good good Brazilian friend on Monday


  2. View Post #52
    Canada Senior Member Scott's Avatar
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    Re: The Establishment of the Ron?s Orgs

    Quote Originally Posted by ab12 View Post
    Bill Ryan lied in his bio on Camelot.

    Check http://thechallengeofexcellence.com/consultants.html
    Not sure it was mentioned but The Founder & Managing Director of this group (Susan Kaye) Bill Ryan is a member of seems to be connected to Scientology as well.
    http://www.truthaboutscientology.com...ditor_150.html
    7064 Susan Kaye

    Scott

    Formerly Known as Aztar
    Spectrum Radio Network co-Host

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Scott For This Useful Post:

    Mogs (6th June 2011), Northern Boy (6th June 2011), WhiteStar (11th June 2011), ZookieMonster (6th June 2011)

  4. View Post #53
    Inactive Mogs's Avatar
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    Re: The Establishment of the Ron?s Orgs

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Not sure it was mentioned but The Founder & Managing Director of this group (Susan Kaye) Bill Ryan is a member of seems to be connected to Scientology as well.
    http://www.truthaboutscientology.com...ditor_150.html
    7064 Susan Kaye

    Scott
    funny how her info has been removed on that site scott, just within last month, but shes still showing as being there

    7058 Mike Rabey
    7059 Wendy Hebblewhite
    7060 Leif Windle
    7061 Ewan Guy
    7062 Don Larson
    7063 Ian Needham
    7064 Susan Kaye
    7065 Joseph Francis
    7066 Giovanni Franchi
    7067 Hugh Wilhere
    7068 Nicole Massie
    7069 Gladys Starbuck
    7070 Klaus Buchele
    7071 Joe Cartwright



  5. View Post #54
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    Re: The Establishment of the Ron?s Orgs

    So who is❤Andreas Buttler and what does Bill Ryan think of him? Please save your comments if you don`t like this don`t read it

    http://english.freiescientologen.de/...d_Spiritologie
    Report on Caspar de Rijk's FZ Convention 2008, Andreas Buttler and Spiritologie


    Here are further articles on that:❤Spiritology and Andreas Buttler - enemy of Scientology
    These emails I document here for public interests:


    Email From:❤Bill Ryan
    Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2008
    Here is a personal report on Caspar de Rijk's FZ Convention held at Birega Haus, Biere, Germany, on 9-11 May 2008.
    The purpose of the report is to report factually what I observed, experienced and/or was told by others, and to make clear where appropriate which are my personal opinions, evaluations and concerns.
    ... (some paragraphs deleted by Andreas Grosz for better reading)
    Spiritology (Spiritologie) was represented by Andreas Buttler, whom I had not previously met. Andreas's presence at the weekend was one of the reasons I attended the convention. I had previously heard and read a number of reports, and had some serious concerns. It was important to me that I checked this out personally rather than rely on rumor lines, however well-intentioned. Because of the importance of this subject, and the ethical questions raised, the rest of my report will focus on this.


    Bill Ryan's observations of Andreas Buttler

    He is physically slightly smaller-than-average man with an average 'size of the being'. This is in contrast with LRH and Captain Bill Robertson [CBR], who many have reported filled the room with their presence. (I can confirm this personally with CBR. I never met LRH.) Andreas was greeted with some adulation and a lot of admiration by many people. I observed quite a lot of charge, laughter and attention of others about him.
    He appeared to enjoy the attention. When standing before the audience, he was confident but was also enjoying 'acting the part', as if on stage. He enjoyed entertaining and being cause so as to make people laugh and react. He had a good sense of timing. But he was not just 'being there'. In my opinion he was trying to be interesting. In all my personal experience with CBR (I never knew LRH), I never experienced that. CBR was 'just there', whatever he did, and did not have much attention on self.
    ERICH FRITSCH has visited Caspar on more than one occasion and has attempted to explain to him, at length, why Andreas Butler's application of LRH tech violates certain Axioms. There is now reason to believe that Erich has recently disconnected from Caspar. For more information on this, please consult Caspar.


    How Spiritology addresses case

    The following is my understanding based on conversations with others. It is, of course, a very brief summary and is not intended to be a comprehensive technical analysis. I am also not a trained C/S, although I am an experienced solo auditor and have had twenty years of experience on the Ron's Org Bridge, currently on the Games Basics Course. Therefore I do consider that I have a good understanding of both LRH's and CBR's technical developments and intentions.
    Spiritology is a comprehensive application of Creative Processing as developed by LRH in the early 1950s. Many will know that this is a powerful technique. It is interesting that LRH himself went on to develop a much more complex and far-reaching Bridge, evidently making the judgment that a case could NOT be handled with Creative Processing alone. Andreas Buttler's consideration is that LRH made an error of judgment at the time and should have persisted with these high-level techniques, which in many ways can be considered as OT processes.
    The essence of the problem can be summarized in a communication exchange I had with Andreas Buttler himself in his seminar on the Saturday afternoon. This was recorded on video and should be publicly available, so I have no reason to falsify it. What follows is my best recall of the importances of the conversation.
    Andreas reached a point in his presentation when he said: 'Captain Bill was a good guy, but started to invent SPs everywhere'. This is my paraphrase based on my recall. If these were not the exact words used, his intention and meaning was clear.
    In Andreas's metaphysics, everything is the creation, or 'imagination', of the being - including what you, the reader, are reading now. As such, there is really no U3 - no 'real physical universe'. Andreas considers this to be an apparency, in the sense that LRH defines 'Apparency' in The Fundamentals of Thought.
    As CBR was not present - physically, at least! - I felt a responsibility to make a correction. I cannot now recall the exact communication exchange, but I stated my viewpoint that SPs (whether or not they had a body) certainly were real, and needed handling just as all beings with cases need handling, and it was the responsibility of auditors to address that.
    Andreas replied that one should not get into a fight with SPs.
    I replied that there was no intention to fight SPs, but to handle them as PCs from one's position and responsibility as an auditor.
    Andreas then used my own originations as an example of how Spiritology works (and it was a good example). If my considerations or originations were charged on the meter, then they would be taken up by a Spriritology auditor and handled by 'Imagination Processing' (Spiritology's application of Creative Processing). If I were (for instance) to protest this, then THAT origination would be taken up. If I disagreed that this was the right handling technically or ethically, then THAT origination would be taken up. If I told Andreas that I believed that he was mistaken and was acting unethically or with an unethical product, then THAT origination would be taken up. And so on.
    I believe that Andreas used the words: 'There is no escape'. This perfectly describes his methodology. ANY origination is taken up as an item to be processed with 'Imagination Processing', whether it is a protest, an out-rudiment, a consideration that there is an auditing error or an overrun, or, absolutely anything else at all. Everything is taken up and processed in a similar way, as long as it is a charged consideration.
    I understood what he meant, and it may have been useful for the audience. The principle is that EVERY CONSIDERATION OF THE PC or Pre-OT is handled by the same general techniques. If I were to receive Spiritology processing, it would be my CONSIDERATIONS about the SPs that would be handled.. not the SPs themselves, as the SPs only 'exist' in my 'imagination'.
    The debate here goes right to the heart of the axioms and of all metaphysics. What is real? This is the question.
    I have debated with CAH frequently about this ( CAH is an old friend of mine who has left Ron?s Org lines to take up Spiritology). What follows is a real example, but is simplified to make the point:
    CAH: "I'm having a lot of wins from Spiritology. When I walk down the street I don't see bad things any more. I don?t see drug addicts and homeless people in the doorways when I walk home late at night. Everything is better."
    Bill: "But they're still there. They're just in the next street, where you can't see them."
    I report this with great love and respect for my friend CAH. We have had a lot of laughs about this. We continue to disagree strongly.


    My evaluation

    1) Spiritology is a mis-application of No-Game Conditions to the Game Conditions which form the world we are living in. (For definitions, see Fundamentals of Thought.)
    2) It's irresponsible to state that the reality 'out there' is an illusion and only exists in imagination. At the highest levels (out of the games at this level on Earth and in this Universe), this is of course true. But it is illogical to apply the principles to reality here. One might be able to clean up one's own universe using Creative Processing, but the drug addicts and homeless people (and the SPs!) still exist. Life might appear fine, in PT, looking out at the world from our eyes, and using our perception. But one only has to travel - to Africa, Myanmar (Burma), China, and many other places - to see something entirely different.
    3) Therefore it is an encouragement to the PC to not-is.
    4) It is unethical in that it does NOT handle the real dangerous environment, which is one of LRH's stated purposes of the tech.
    5) It is a false bridge by the definitions of CBR in Admin Briefing 2, in that it delivers some gains, gives the illusion of progress and spiritual development, but does not handle the real problems in U3.
    6) Andreas Buttler is not LRH. To me this is obvious. What may be happening (and this is my personal opinion) is that Andreas is someone who worked with LRH in the early 1950s, was technically trained by him, and at that time had the strong opinion that Creative Processing was the way to handle everything and that LRH was wrong to move on to develop the Bridge as we now know it.
    7) Therefore my opinion is that this is a dramatization of Andreas's unhandled valence item and service fac. (Caspar's consideration is that it is not important whether or not Andreas is LRH, and no technical evaluation of Andreas's case has been made.)
    8) Andreas Buttler states that Xenu has been handled. He states that for a considerable period of time a few years ago he personally audited to EP a person whom Xenu was using as an identity. The auditing continued for quite some time and contained quite some TA and drama. This information was told to me by Caspar. Please consult Caspar or Andreas Buttler for further details of this claim.
    9) Andreas now states that 'Scientology is no longer necessary', and promotes this viewpoint to anyone interested in Spiritology.
    10) I believe that RR, whom I like and respect and who clearly knows a lot about the tech, is correct when he observes that the processes can work very well when correctly applied (as any process can) - but that it is the intention behind the application that can be suppressive and is suppressive in this instance.
    11) In summary, knowing what I consider I know about Xenu and the state of the Games, this is a typical Xenu game which he would regard as extremely funny. I consider myself well-qualified to offer this opinion and am very confident of this evaluation. Andreas Buttler is not an SP, but is functioning as one. In reality, he is unknowingly PTS to Xenu, and this is a very typical (and very ingenious) Xenu scenario.
    12) Because of this, there is a Danger. Some people who for one reason or another are not totally satisfied with their bridge, instead of taking the issues up standardly with their own auditor or C/S, are leaving Ron's Org (and other) lines and are being seduced by the promises and PR of Spiritology, which of course delivers wins as per the definition of a False Bridge.
    13) This is a no-confront and is exactly what LRH defined as rabbiting: running 'away from everything including his bank'. (HCOB 26 Apr 71 II, HCOB 10 Apr 72).
    14) The benefit for Xenu, meanwhile - is that none of his guys get any auditing. That?s why he's laughing...
    It's fine with me for this report to be forwarded or published elsewhere on the internet, or translated into any other language, as long as no meaning is changed.
    BILL RYAN
    Ron's Org

    Answer by Andreas Buttler

    From: Andreas Buttler <andreas@spiritologie.de>
    Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 00:17:39 +0200
    Now LISTEN, Asshole!! Bill Ryan!
    You are " trying" to INVALIDATE a big WIN of my friend Claude-Alain, he was and is widely F/Ning on, after he reached the full E/P of OT-Processes!
    You never call this man a friend again you lying bug! And then invalidate a full E/P, you never saw at a meter, because you cannot even operate one - you OT who never cleared anybody by Tech, because you have no training at all as a professionel auditor.
    And of course you cannot audit, because you never handled you stammering! Tech never came in on you, because of your Out-Ethics.
    No go home to your american CIA Boss and tell him, your project failed utterly to infiltrade every group of Scientologists, to spread your ideas of Chaos and Evil in the wold, as your friend and puppet George W Bush does, because of the same plan, you are following! You cannot distract them anymore, cannot control anymore what they should think and agree upon, so that you can continue the war in the world against your self created evil to make Billions out of all the slaughtered human beings and suffering!
    You failed! And everybody can see now to which stinking breed you belong. It is obvious for a blind man in a coma!
    THIS IS YOUR REAL WHY FOR YOUR REPORT!
    You even said so, that you came there just because of ME!
    Because you have been ordered too - to then write exactly that REPORT, that was written already! You and your friends have been afraid of me all the time and thought, you should try a last attack, to see, if you could stop it in the beginning, when my book is published! And...you just disclosed you true Beingness and Intentions by that!❤ You are to degraded to even see that you are following orders of unaware antisocial nuts without any real power!
    We know you now!!! So go home fast or I grab you by your ❤❤❤❤ed up white hat throat!
    And take your Psychologist Regina right with you, or she will be visited by me too!
    Last warning!
    One look at your website is enough to see, what kind of mock-ups you want others to agree upon - you merchant of entheta, fear and terror and suppression!
    You are confronted and declared SP by me already! So you can stop avoiding Caspars mails, definitions and offers.
    We know, that you don't have any MU. You are just playing the idiot, that cannot grasp! You don't WANT to grasp, because it is against your oders and the game, your boss wanted you to play in the Spiritologits - and Scientologists universe.
    You are out now! Unmocked in our game - leave this country and tell your friends, I will get them too - with FUN!
    I was in control all the time - I even GAVE your friends the church of Scientology to trap them with - because it is not needed anymore!❤
    So you grabbed it❤ And I had a laugh!
    Love, even for you, poor Idiot!
    Andreas Buttler


  6. View Post #55
    Great Britain Inactive aroundthetable's Avatar
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    Re: The Establishment of the Ron?s Orgs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Thank you for the well articulated responses.

    I think we can agree that sometimes the veil gets lifted, and sometimes it requires some assistance.

    I joined this forum because I realize that we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

    That experience often involves miscommunication and hurt feelings, which often leads to errors in judgement (whether admitted or not by the error-ee). A persons past does not define them.

    I came here to continue the valued and engaging communication with the many souls I resonated deeply with on PA.

    I have a deep love for you all, and I apologize for coming off as insensitive. I just know that the world needs us to embrace love right now, not playing the victim, savior, or villain.

    Sorry for derailing the topic, it was unintentional.

    Are you stoned?


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