Palestine Pre-1947

[gratitudeandlove]

PALESTINE BEFORE SATAN CAME TO TOWN

Palestine - The Country that never existed.
The old lie that palestine was dry desert waiting for a people is just that--a lie.
I wonder who are those 1 million refugess in 17 camps. People that never existed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjEBQ...layer_embedded

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[Modwiz]

Give Satan a break Grats. He gives you a choice, a tempting one, but you can decline the offer. The zionists are an alien virus unleashed upon humanity. Just like the Europeans were/are. After all, they are really from Europe and not Palestine. Although tracing them back futher in time originates them from Asia. What clarity we can keep in the storyline is helpful.

You mean one million Gentiles? Just animals to be herded and used or killed as needed. It says so in the Talmud, the book of the tribes shepards. I wish to help those sheep also. They have been divided from the rest of humanity, manipulated by their so called holy men. We, the people, Gentiles and Jews alike have to join hands.

Let those who refuse to join hands be noted, but let us not be parted anymore.

I would be interested on your take of the plight of the Aboriginals in Australia. They have a similar story. Although they may not have all of those nice photos to make their case.

[Cec Kra]

The zionists are an alien virus unleashed upon humanity. Just like the Europeans were/are. After all, they are really from Europe and not Palestine.

?????????

[gratitudeandlove]

I do not think these families had a choice when they had their houses stolen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOXnC...eature=related

[Nazirite]

A vast and controversial subject this Grat. Good luck if you want to explore it........but if you do, you should start with the first Zionist conference in Switzerland (Basel 1898 if memory serves me)That way you get the whole problem in context.
Nothing is ever black and white. Also remember, Palestine was originally a very small population composed of Muslim, Jewish and Christian Semitic peoples......who were equally affected by the influx of a large european Jewry.

[omer]

Not this again, please...

OK, let's get this over with.

Concerning the first video, it doesn't tell me anything, really, just a collection of photos.No way to tell if they are what they are claimed to be. Most of them look to be of Arabian descent, though.

You do realize, I hope, that nobody's saying there weren't any Arabs in 'Palestine' before 1948. The claim is that the majority of them (not all) immigrated to 'Palestine' from 'Lebanon', 'Syria' and 'Egypt' (in parenthesis because it was really the Ottoman Empire) after the Jews started arriving en masse in 1882 from Europe and bought lands in unpopulated areas. Something which was almost unheard of in the region to the extent of the fact that before 1855 no one lived outside a walled city for fear of bandits and brigands. In 1855 a group of Jews bought a suburb outside the city walls, but that's beside the point.

The population in 'Palestine' pre 1882 was comprised mainly from Arabs, Jews and Armenians in the cities, and mainly Bedouins roaming the countryside (tent dwellers). It wasn't until 1882 when the Jews established new settlements and brought new agricultural knowledge from Europe that Arabs started flocking to the area (new work and business opportunities).

A source for pre 1882 'Palestine' is "The Innocents Abroad" by Mark Twain from 1869.

Keep in mind that there wasn't a Jordanian people nor a Syrian, Lebanese or Egyptian people. The British Empire invented them when they went back to whence they came. It is made apparent by looking in a map at the border lines between Syria, Jordan and Iraq, and the borders of Egypt with Lybia too. All straight lines and hard angles.

Notice, also, that when the 'Palestinian People' of the West Bank were under Jordanian rule (up until 1967) they were pretty happy to be called Jordanians and not 'Palestinians'. The same is true for the Gaza Strip, they were just ordinary Egyptians before '67. Why didn't they revolt under the 'Palestinian' flag and removed the Jordanian or Egyptian yoke from over their shoulders? Because there was no such flag and no such people.


As for the second video you posted, I'm not even going to get into a conversation about that since no mention was made of the fact that Israel also evicted whole Jewish settlements and communities from Gaza Strip and West bank and even a city from the Sinai desert all for the sake of peace (which the Palestinians never abide by, by the way).


So to conclude:

Is Israel perfect, pure and never wrong? No, show me a place that is. But Does Israel try it's best? often at it's own expense and undermining it's own security in the process? I believe so.

Can you say the same thing about the 'Palestinian' people?



Disclaimer: I am aware of the fact that I might be prejudiced. I am also aware or the fact that history is written by the victors and my sources might be faulty. I am aware of the fact that I live in Israel and so might be too close to see the forest for all the trees. I am also aware of the fact that you live so far away that you might not even be able to see the forest and must base your opinions on such illustriously neutral and unbiased sources as the mainstream media and Youtube.


P.S.
I know I sound confrontational. It's not intended. It's just my writing style. (I have to put a post script like this in half the mails I send to my friends, too). And I can't bring myself to use emoticons, too, backwards Middle Eastern infidel that I am.

[omer]

Just a little thing to add.

For the Israeli population and worldwide Jewry at large, the word Zionism means nothing more than 'the will to live in the holy land'. They aren't aware of any global conspiracy and such. I would hazard that the same is true for the average 'Palestinian'.

What happens in the high windows of any side in the conflict is not something I or any average citizen knows.

As for the 'Palestinians' being the underdog and the 'good guys' and all... I would guess that the Zionists (or another elitist group) infiltrated them. They usually (if conspiracy theories are to be believed) like to play from both sides of the board. They play to win, remember?

[Richard]

I am aware of the fact that I live in Israel and so might be too close to see the forest for all the trees. I am also aware of the fact that you live so far away that you might not even be able to see the forest and must base your opinions on such illustriously neutral and unbiased sources as the mainstream media and Youtube.

Thanks Omer
Your post is a breath of fresh air and the disclaimer is right on the money as well.
Too many are basing their beleifs on propaganda videos and ignorant activists blindly blogging away with little or no knowledge of what is really going on.

Mainstream media often favours Israel, Alt Media demonizes the country and people. From my experience both are completely off base and not worth my time. If one wants to really know whats going on. Dive in! Go to Gaza and see the repression for yourself, but also go to Sderot, an Israeli city in the western Negev. Where between 2001 and January 2009, over 8,600 rockets had been launched at them from Gaza killing and wounding innocent men, women and children doing nothing more than their daily routine.

Perspective is a wonderful thing, many in the Alt community have woken up only to be put back to sleep in a different room.

Programming is programming, period.

[omer]

Exactly, thanks.

Oddly enough, the mainstream media in Israel is usually pro Palestinian and you have to go to the internet to find pro Israel voices.

many in the Alt community have woken up only to be put back to sleep in a different room.

So very true, and kind of poetically stated. It might even be 'post signature' material.

[Amer]

I have long tried to understand the Israel/Palestinian situation, only to become bogged down in historical starting points for example. I have followed neatly put together timelines only to see them rebutted by another source.

I like your honesty Omer in the possible knowing and not knowing of the facts.

What speaks to me though is the humanitarian side, the loss of life and the terrible human suffering. The waste of promise.

[Richard]

I have long tried to understand the Israel/Palestinian situation, only to become bogged down in historical starting points for example.

start here---> 1905 BC - Ishmael born to Abram(Abraham) and Hagar at the age of 86. [Gen 16:16]
Hagar was Sarai's(Sarah) Egyptian handmaid. Because Sarai was barren she told Abraham to take Hagar
in order to fulfill Elohim's promise. Ishmael was born and then raised as Sarai's son. However,
this was not Elohim's plan and it all went to hell after that.
Enter the British empire into the equation a couple thousand years later with their Christian conquests and colonization and voila.. Self Destruct Initiated.. See ya.

Want to know why Muslims seem to hate westerners so much it appears genetic? Go look up what King Richard really did. The only thing lion like about him is he was a vicious predator. For those who don't care to research, he could of been Hitlers ancestor.

Peace is not a goal, its a state of being. Many humans cannot attain that state because of the trauma that has been inflicted on their race lingers in the group consciousness as a unresolved pain. Until that gets properly addressed there will never be an absence of war and hate and fear.

israel_hist_1973.jpg

[omer]

What speaks to me though is the humanitarian side, the loss of life and the terrible human suffering. The waste of promise.

Not long ago (a month or two maybe three), there was a prisoner exchange between Israel and one of the Palestinian organizations (Hammas, I think). In the exchange we gave them 1,027 prisoners (actually only 477, the rest are due to be released this month), hundreds of whom have blood on their hands and were sentenced for a few lifetimes each (weird right).

Most of them got out with Bachelor's or even Master's degrees from the Open University which Israel provides them in the hope that education will broaden their horizons and make them less prone to terrorist behaviour. This is a fact.

Meanwhile, our guy, who suffered a broken arm and shoulder wound was never treated. All he got was drawing equipment and after a year or two they provided him with a TV set (only Arabic channels) so he wouldn't lose his mind (and lose his value as a trading card). At least that's what we are told.

While the Palestinians were released with a clean bill of health and were actually plump (see the videos), our guy was undernourished and pale and vomited in his helicopter flight from the exchange. He also needed treatment for his arm and shoulder which went untreated for 6 years.

So it seems like on both accounts (respect for human life and humanitarianism) Israel comes out on top.

Is Israel perfect? Far from it, but they try (I believe).

[Heretic]

the tension in the middle east is engineered IMHO

just like every other war we have seen in the last 100 years

dehumanization and demonization are required ingredients of war

you will find each side producing both

each side puppets and tools

all to progress the agenda

[Amer]

So it seems like on both accounts (respect for human life and humanitarianism) Israel comes out on top.

Go easy a bit Omer or it may sound like you have swallowed the propaganda machine.

[omer]

the tension in the middle east is engineered IMHO

just like every other war we have seen in the last 100 years

dehumanization and demonization are required ingredients of war

you will find each side producing both

each side puppets and tools

all to progress the agenda

True, and true.

Go easy a bit Omer or it may sound like you have swallowed the propaganda machine.

Right? I know!

It was really weird for me to write that stuff. But that example just stares you in the face. You can't ignore it. I was actually against the exchange, by the way, and still am.

I'm not happy with either side of the conflict, and I'm doing what I can to jump ship. Besides, this place isn't built to sustain life (without lots of technology). There is a good winter for every ten bad (dry) ones.

I know it looks like I'm rooting for Israel. But in writing I can only give you the bottom line and not the whole story. That's something for a few hours of conversation, in fits and starts over a weeks time (my mind is not ordered for a protracted discussion, I get sidetracked). My thinking on the issue is much more complicated than what I can give you in writing.