Proof

[jsb_swampfox]

most of you seem to have some kind of experience ,with what you state in your post.
but most of the time it is very vauge.

Hey Manny, I personally do not have any proof that is tangible for my own experiences. I also frequent other forums, over at PA there is a guy who has been documenting his experiences with ufo's to the forum and on his youtube channel. Here is one of his latest post over there:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...serene-flyover

and his youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whotookmymojo

[Richard]

Love ya John, just beautiful.

[flower]

John you are one of my favorite people in this community

As i sit here with shayna at our feet... her body not what it used to be.. but her spirit in fine form

you have given me tools, to cope..

once again ...thank you

[sllim11]

john.

i had this similar experience with my sweet beloved percy---cat. we were so connected like we were telepathic. i still get really sad sometimes 5 years later. i truly loved this cat and the bond was real and very intense. i had to put him down, cancer. he was with me for 13 yrs and we went through a hellofalot together. and i swear sometimes i see him out of the corner of my eye. also i get that feeling like he is right under my feet sometimes. you know like they do get under feet and you check to make sure you aren't going to step on a paw or tail. and usually when this happens i say "oh percy!" and it is such a wonderful feeling i get when it happens!! i have yet to get another animal, for having to go through the greif again. reason being during those years we did have other kitties and one was around a couple years , he passed from leukemia. and i had several baby kittens, 4 of them, that my two young children fell in love with and they all went missing or got eaten by coyote. it was almost to much to bear. losing the little babies that my little ones were so connected to!!! and then having to tell and console them. oh it absolutely did break my heart and theres...)

it is truly amazing how much love we do have for our pets. they are beyond wonderful!

this is certainly all very real to me. i have no proof. but i do know.

[Anchor]

this is certainly all very real to me. i have no proof. but i do know.

Thanks, and this is the nub of it.

One person's experience, is another's act of faith, or even just belief.

And for each it is real, but cannot really be conveyed with any proof.

Can we trust without proof?

Is it necessary for me to render proof that I love my wife, this day, Valentines day, with trinkets?

I cannot see how even such a thing, a loving relationship could be proven to scientific standards of acceptability

What I can do, is demonstrate it, and that is enough.

Luckily for me - LOL

[Dex]

faith does not do it for me.

Manny, I come from a similar perspective and I also get aggravated when people present their faith/belief system as The Truth. I tend to need to experience things to believe them (and I can see what you are asking is for people stating The Truth to share the experiences that made them believe -- fair enough, IMHO). When people insist that they know things about other dimensions, etc, I think it is alright to ask them why they believe this (but perhaps in a more openhearted manner than your post).

While we can't ask everyone to prove their truths with data, I think it is fair to expect that others should present their truths as beliefs (and also that these presenters of truth respect other peoples' beliefs, or lack of beliefs). Our blind faith is constantly demanded by TPTB and others -- it is my belief(!) that to be on guard against this is healthy.

All that said, it helps to keep some balance and know that people trying to share The Truth generally have good intentions (it is up to us to practice our best discernment and ask clarifying questions in an open and non-accusatory way -- in the sincere interest of learning from one another, not disproving one another). I think that "spirit" of self-awareness of ones' beliefs not being The Truth and the goal of mutual understanding/learning is alive here at Nexus (enough to keep things relatively balanced). But I do hear your frustration and drive for understanding Manny! And I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your cat friend (it can be very sad, I know). I'm not a spiritual person, but I do like what Anchor says about the love you shared living on and available through other animals/friends.

As for me, the only truth that I think I know is that love is the highest law. This is not just an intangible emotion, I see evidence for it in my life and in the world (yet, I'm uncertain I can prove it). That is just about as close as I get to faith and I am even willing to be challenged on it (since very few, if any of us, see the big picture, if such a thing is even humanly possible). I am also still working to learn and live this belief and it is not easy! While I don't exactly have set beliefs/faith, I do still have my own (and sometimes shifting) opinions, perspectives, experiences and biases (and it is my aim to present them as such and to be open to questions about their origins if asked).

Happy Valentine's Day all! (also known as Love Day in my family).

[Anthony]

I have "seen" the trees. That's it. Can't explain what I mean, can't prove it... but it was so flaking awesome, that it took several years before I dared to go into a forest on my own again. It was'nt spooky/scary, the energy was just "awesome" in the true sense of that often mis-used word... Thier power is stunning. Quite stunning. But I have no proof...

peace - A

[alienHunter]

Hi Manny,

I had what has been characterized as an out of body experience once. Do I believe that's what it was...i dunno. I had read about the phenomena and had been trying to do it just 'cause I thought it sounded cool. I was somewhat concerned that something a-spiritual (my new word for the day) could happen to my body in that state but in those days I guess I was braver. At any rate, after a few aborted attempts (I kept getting trapped at the level of the power lines outside my house) I finally slipped by them an ended up in New York City at an apartment fire and helping people escape. The next morning I read about a New York city apartment fire and in the story it was remarked how people off the streets had helped people escape the fire. So is that proof or synchronicity or just plain bs coincidence. Hell, I don't know but it was kind of weird.

The only way I could prove anything to you is to visit you in astral form and give you a smack. While you might be quite the good person, I really don't want to do that. As one strict grounded engineer said to me...the people that have those kind of experiences tend to have those kind of experiences, the people that don't tend to have those kinds of experiences tend to not have those kind of experiences.

[Unified Serenity]

[Unified Serenity]

Now, for the sake of full disclosure, here is a video exposing a scam of creating fire through apparent Chi, and it's really not what is happening in this video. Does it make my just posted video above false? No it does not. It does show things can be faked. I personally do believe in the power of chi, but I also believe in the power of liars to make people believe they have special powers.

I happen to believe the above video is real.

[Anthony]

Unified, I've seen that before - amazing stuff, thx for the reminder.

A.

[alienHunter]

I got my daughter a pet hamster and went through the stages of wishing it would die, wondering when it would die, and finally mourning its death...I have a great deal of difficulty with death.

[Dreamwalker]

well what can i say.
all i have done for the last few week is push people away.
push,attack,critisise,insult and argue.
all for my unknown selfish means.

and what do you lot do! push back.
push back hard with compassion,love and truth(even if it hits hard).
thank you all for your insights.
a learning curve learnt i hope.

[Fred Steeves]

As one strict grounded engineer said to me...the people that have those kind of experiences tend to have those kind of experiences, the people that don't tend to have those kinds of experiences tend to not have those kind of experiences.

Hi alienhunter, pretty cool oobe you had in NYC! The quote you posted above made me chuckle because that's exactly what I always figured too. Jeez, all the books I read of people supposedly having this and that incredible experience, and it was like well great, good for them, so they're special and we have to just take their word for it. That was one of the main reasons I became a proud card carrying atheist back in the late 90's.

Then about a year later my mom died very unexpectadly, and my wife and I got the call around 3 A.M. of the news. At the hospital the Intensive Care nurses were nurturingly insisting that it gives great comfort and closure for relatives to go bedside one by one to say goodbyes in private. I still remember my sister who was/is a born again christian being in there for around half an hour, holding her hand, talking to her, and sobbing.

Then reluctantly it was my turn, it just didn't feel right to do that. As soon as I pulled the curtain and saw mom's body I immediately knew something was missing. It was mom. Every spidey sense in my body told my proud intelligent atheist mind that the cold body laying there wasn't her, mom was elsewhere. The "visit" was very brief, maybe two minutes, as I had "seen" all I needed to see.

She had waited til the very "end" to give me the greatest gift a mother could give, and I can't wait to thank her.

Manny, can I prove this? Of course not. But one of the main things it showed me is that these types of experiences aren't reserved for the special few, they're available to all.

Cheers,
Fred

BTW Manny, I'm also sorry to hear about your cat. As a lifelong pet person I know all too well how gut wrenching the loss of one is. They're family after all right?

[alienHunter]

yeah Fred, exactly and oh yes, I know what you mean...